but here, where is the action, bob? >> well, having tried to do some reporting on this, first of all, i think the staff, the white house staff and the house staff, have met or talked five times. it really is down to obama and boehner at the table. i think you can only take a snapshot right now and try to look at what the experience the president has had recently. he won re-election. he's had lots of ceos in to meet with him. and this is interesting. they are telling him, mostly republicans, let's give on rates. it's not a big deal. i think the house leadership may have lost the parade that is supposed to be following them on that. i think lots of republicans feel that that can be done. and then the ceos are worried to death about another debt ceiling fight like in 2011. >> julianna, you asked the question with the president, when do you and boehner get into a room and? and he basically said, well, that's not important as him giving on tax rates and then we get together. >> when is either side going to blink. the preside